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153 Fish Bible. 153 Large Fish in John Bible - John explains his purpose for the use of 153 Fish, 153 large fish in John 21:11, as a metaphor.  Bible points to the context.

 

153  Fish 


Problems with Church Father’s Explanations

 

Print Free Pamphlet - - Brief Summary

Why  153  Fish  in  John  21:11  ?

Sections :

Introduction
 Church Fathers : Sts. Jerome, Augustine, Gregory the Great, Cyril A.
 
No Reason ?
 Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s
 Problems with Square Root of 3 Answer
 Context Points to the Answer : An Explanation That Works
 Archimedes : Context of Time and Place
 Greeks and Wisdom
 Fish
 Calculating the Measure of the Fish
 John’s Purpose
 Why Church Fathers Did Not (could not?) Give John’s Idea
 
Conclusion

 


 

 

No Reason ?

Some have said, that there was no reason at all for John to note that it was 153 fish. No reason other than it just happened that way.  While a lot of things are possible, that explanation seems very unlikely.

 

Writing on animal skin or parchment John uses his limited and precious space to note this detail of 153 large fish. And he does this even while stating that he omitted many other details.  See John 20:30.  

 

He must have had a reason to include the detail of 153 fish.  The fact that the church fathers searched for some meaning to explain the number 153 suggests that they knew that there must be some meaning that John attached to it. 

 

St. Augustine  states :

“ ... but the definite number of a 153; and of the reason of this number we must now, with the Lord’s help, give some account.”
(See  St Augustine, Tractate 122 (John 20:30-21:11), section 8)

 

St. Augustine knew that there must be some reason why John included this peculiar detail of “153” fish. 

 

His invocation for “the Lord’s help” seems to indicate that he believed the answer was not obvious and only with difficulty, and only with the Lord’s help, would a person be able to determine its “hidden” meaning.

 

St. Augustine,

“Ignorance of numbers, too, prevents us from understanding things that are set down in Scripture in a figurative and mystical way.”
On Christian Doctrine (Book 2.16.25)]  

 

Saint Augustine,

“As to the reasons, indeed, why these numbers are so put in the Holy Scriptures, other people may trace out other reasons ... [than] those which I have given ...

 

but there is no one surely so foolish or so absurd as to contend that they are so put in the Scriptures for no purpose at all, and that there are no mystical reasons why those numbers are there mentioned.”
The Trinity (4.6.10)

 

Father William Most writes,

“These are the deeper philosophical and theological foundations of Augustine’s respect for the truths of number. …

Though he may not always find the reasons of fittingness ... 
which Providence had in mind in placing each number in Scripture, yet he is sure they are there.”
(The Scriptural Basis of St. Augustine's Arithmology)

       
  

Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s

 

Problems with St. Jerome’s  Idea

 

Jerome wrote that Oppian’s Halieutica  lists a total of 153 types of fish.  This number of species is supposed to represent all the nations, and so thus the Gospel is for people of every nation.

 

However, Wikipedia states:

“Jerome, for example, wrote that Oppian’s Halieutica listed 153 species of fish, although this could not have been the intended meaning of the Gospel writer because Oppian composed Halieutica after the Gospel text was written, and at any rate never gave a list of fish species that clearly adds up to 153.”
See Wikipedia, and sources two and three

 

St. John could not have been using “information” that would not be made available until the time of Jerome or even Oppian. 

 

In order to defend the position that John intended this connection to 153 a person would have to maintain that this “knowledge” of the number of species of fish was known at John’s time. 

 

Further, it would have to be so widely known that John could safely assume his readers already knew it. 

 

No one has been able to demonstrate that anyone “knew” there were 153 species of fish prior to Jerome’s assertion.  It seems very difficult to believe that this “information” was so wide spread in John’s time that he could just assume everyone knew it. 

 

Therefore, it seems impossible for Jerome’s idea to have been John’s.  John could not have expected his readers to know he had intended Jerome’s association of 153 with the supposed number of species of fish.

 

See links below for more   

 

Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s , part 2
 

A Message with Little Gain  ?

A Communication Failure by John ? 

Were the Father’s Wrong ?    

Mixing the Metaphors :   Net Not Tearing   =  Unity ???  

Parallels in John’s Gospel

 

Print Free Pamphlet -  - Brief Summary

Why  153  Fish  in  John  21:11  ?

Sections :

Introduction
 Church Fathers : Sts. Jerome, Augustine, Gregory the Great, Cyril A.
 
No Reason ?
 Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s
 Problems with Square Root of 3 Answer
 Context Points to the Answer : An Explanation That Works
 Archimedes : Context of Time and Place
 Greeks and Wisdom
 Fish
 Calculating the Measure of the Fish
 John’s Purpose
 Why Church Fathers Did Not (could not?) Give John’s Idea
 
Conclusion

 

 
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

 

 

 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
     
     

 

 

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